Sin? Question #1

[que90nek]

Let's pose some scenarios and give our OPINIONS about whether or not we believe it to be a sin or not. Please understand that these are just opinions and nothing more.

Scenario NUMBER ONE

ACTORS:
Lady X
Sister of Lady X
Man Y.

Lady X, a new christian and very new to the entire church, is preparing for church. She puts on a beige paisley print dress. She has on red thongs and matching bra underneath. Lady X looks in the mirror and thinks to herself "Gosh, this may be too revealing...oh well i didnt prepare anything else" the dress is very tight and IS revealing. She walks by her sister, who has been in church for years and years and is a christian and even serves as an usher sometime, her sister thinks to herself "Lawd, look what she got on....we are running late time to go," she says "Let's GO!" They get in the car and drive to church.

At church...Lady X sits in front of Man Y. Man Y, who is a christian of over 5 years, can barely take his eyes off of Lady X...he can tell she has on thongs and he thinks to himself "whew, i could just bend her right over that pew...." but he constantly looks at her 36-34-38 frame the entire church service.

Ok, gang....

who has sinned? and why?

[Mocha]

This is where I always get myself in trouble at Bible Study.

I don't think either one of them sinned. I know some would say at least the sister and mr. Man Y did. Sister because of her talking about her, and Mr. Y because he was thinking those thoughts but that is normal, to me and whose to say that Lady X can not be a "Christian" and look nice. And the sister reaction was normal because she does not dress like that. Mr Man Y, is a human being and he was admiring a beautiful lady, just happened to be at church.

[mystkev]

I would say Lady X and Man Y. Lady X for dressing lustful and Man Y for his lustful thoughts. Everybody knows you don't go to church wearing see-thru outfits. I don't blame the sister, she was just trying to get to church on time.

[swtjamaica]

..committed the sin in his mind...i can't honestly say that sister of lady x passed any judgement toward her sis...lady x dressed with what she had...it is up to man y to not succumb to the fleshly thoughts that entered his mind while attempting to worship God...
lady x wore what she had...

[lovely]

I dont think that Lady X necessarly sinned. Because she is a new Christian she might not realize that she needed to not wear what she had on because she is a new babe. I know that Christians can look nice...but there is a difference between looking nice and knowingly going out with you thongs showing through your outfit.

The sister..i dont think she sinned either. I think that she maybe shouldve said something...but then again we dont know if this sister had been praying for her sister to come to know Christ for a while and she might not have wanted to "critize what her sister was wearing". She mightve been grateful that the sister was even attending church.

Now in my opinion the sinner is the christian man of 5 years. I think that there is a difference between admiring a beautiful woman and thinking about bending her over pews...and watching her the entire service.

[Mocha]

Originally posted by mystkev+
I Everybody knows you don't go to church wearing see-thru outfits.

Yeah everybody knows, but is it actually a sin, to dress seductive? And is being a Christian based on what you have on? We know what's approaiate or not, but that is with anything, the job, the gym, the church...etc. But is that a sin, or just being manish!

[que90nek]

is her sister accountable to her ...one christian to another ...from senior christian to baby christian...at least to say something?

did the man's thoughts become lust....

should the lady have known better than to wear that outfit...was it God that was tellin her that it might not be acceptable...


i have to think....

[mystkev]

Originally posted by Mocha+


Yeah everybody knows, but is it actually a sin, to dress seductive? And is being a Christian based on what you have on? We know what's approaiate or not, but that is with anything, the job, the gym, the church...etc. But is that a sin, or just being manish! I feel that it is, it was definitely in poor taste. Being Christian isn't based on what you wear, but you should consider that there's a time and a place for everything.

[lovely]

Originally posted by Mocha+


Yeah everybody knows, but is it actually a sin, to dress seductive? And is being a Christian based on what you have on? We know what's approaiate or not, but that is with anything, the job, the gym, the church...etc. But is that a sin, or just being manish!

If God is working on you on the inside then he definelty will eventually begin to deal with the outward things. The way you talk..your mannerisms...and the way you dress, etc. So it may not be sin...as far as the ten commandments are concerned..but eventually if you are really committed to your relationship with Christ..yes, i think that the way you dress will change. If need be.

[que90nek]

causing a man to lust...

gosh...let me go find that verse....

[Mocha]

I was just wondering if someone felt that was a sin.

[nubianx2]

I would say Man Y, even though he didn't commit sin with the physical act he did in his mind. Instead of constantly checking her out during the service he should've been praying a prayer rebuking satan.

As far as lady X goes, with someone new Christ they sometimes do and say things that may not appear to br wise. But thru studying the word and fellowship they come to understand.

The Sister of Lady X didn't comment on the outfit, and that may or may not have been wrong. Like Lovely stated if she'd been praying for her sister to give her life to Christ then the mere fact that it happened may have been enough regardless of the way she dresses.

[Mocha]

Originally posted by que90nek+
causing a man to lust...

gosh...let me go find that verse....

Some would say lusting is a sin and since she caused him to then he sin cause he did it

[que90nek]

here it is

Matthew 5:28

28: But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

[Mocha]

I don't do good in Bible Study!:( I think that is natural. How do you know when it is lust. Now this is something we did discuss in Bible Study. Is admiring lust? and when does it turn into lust!

[que90nek]

Mocha,

only God knows your heart...and if you are truly lusting. You may admire or even recognize the beauty of a woman or man...but u can go beyond that ....and i think perhaps this guy, MAN Y...may have...i mean...thought of bending her over the pew....lawd have mercy!

[davinci]

man - lusting in heart. que omnipotently told us he wanted to bone her.

mocha, you keep addressing the natural thing. nature says bone whether mariied or not. still a sin according to commandments.

[lovely]

Originally posted by que90nek+
is her sister accountable to her ...one christian to another ...from senior christian to baby christian...at least to say something?



I think that the sister could be accountable to her baby christian sister if thier relationship allows for it.

[que90nek]

but shouldnt the sister have said something?

[nubianx2]

Originally posted by que90nek+
but shouldnt the sister have said something?

Yeah she probably should've, but her sister may have taken it as her being "preachy."

[seductive_tee]

I said the man, but i want to take it back...you didn't say he was married and besides, he only thought it, never expressed it...is thinking a sin?

the lady in the dress, well they say say come to church as you are.

her sister, well she could be the sinner, because she judged her sister and really didn't accept what she had on....

[Mocha]

Originally posted by davinci+
man - lusting in heart. que omnipotently told us he wanted to bone her.

mocha, you keep addressing the natural thing. nature says bone whether mariied or not. still a sin according to commandments.

I realize what the man said in the serino but he didn't bone her...so my question was about lust and when does admiring turn into lust. I think its natural for a man/women to admire the opposite sex. That is why I wanted clarity on lust and admiring, I said nothing about it's natural to go bone.

[que90nek]

Originally posted by nubianx2+


Yeah she probably should've, but her sister may have taken it as her being "preachy."

yes, but does that absolve her of her responsibility to say something...perhaps that saying something coupled with the thought that she had would be enough to keep this guy from lusting over her.

[Qjai]

All three have sinned to me...

Lady X for tempting or inticing (sp). I think I read somewhere that one should not do something like that.

Man Y - For lusting after her as ya'll have already stated

And Lady X sister - Knowing that Lady X is "a newborn" in the eyes of christ I would believe that she was suppose to guide her. Almost the same way that you see a child doing wrong (back in the day at least) it was your duty as an adult to steer them right and then tell their parents.

[que90nek]

judged her sister?
she merely thought a thought about what her sister had on....

[HulaSista]

dayum........

man y sin (lust in mind as que stated via bible verse)

lady x I think is sinning, because I think there is a scripture in deutoronomy that talks about a woman remaining covered up

sister of lady x well........ she didn't sin, per se...... she did what we all do: ignore it..... so, I guess that is a sin.... not fellowshiping with her sister perhaps and discussing with her appropriate dress for a christian woman.

[davinci]

Originally posted by davinci+
mocha, you keep addressing the natural thing. nature says bone whether mariied or not. still a sin according to commandments. there's a period in there [stop] allow me to retort [stop] using nature as an excuse is not an excuse [stop] it's natural to desire [stop] desire is a sin [stop] desire meaning to lust [stop] remember jimmy carter's response [break] he qouted matthew [end]

[Mocha]

Originally posted by davinci+
there's a period in there [stop] allow me to retort [stop] using nature as an excuse is not an excuse [stop] it's natural to desire [stop] desire is a sin [stop] desire meaning to lust [stop] remember jimmy carter's response [break] he qouted matthew [end]

Thankssssssss!

[davinci]

Originally posted by HulaSista+
appropriate dress for a christian woman. we've come a long way from the fig leaf. is our shame reason to accuse others of sin?

[que90nek]

there is appropriate dress...and then there is dress that is appropriate for church....
there is a verse or two that addresses this...i will try to find.

[Tastey]

But I will make my answer brief.

In my opinion if this woman did not purposely put on something with the INTENT of enticing a man then her attire should not be in question.

I have enticed men in baggy sweats...to me whether it's SIN or not is based on the intent.

The sister...FELT is was inappropriate attire which is really her own OPINION which she is entitled to. So no sin there. As far as her duty to teach another Christian...well as Christians it's our duty to go to church, and lead others to Christ...but is not doing it sin?

Lastly, the man is human. He had human thoughts which no one can escape. An attractive woman was in front of him and he reacted as a human male.

There is a very fine line between natural human thoughts...and lustful thoughts...

[mack_black]

IN my opinion....

nobody SINNED....

The chick...well she knew she had inappropriate clothes on but had to get to church on time, so she didnt go to church to be a hootchie....besides who cares what anyone wears at church as long as you go to praise the Lord, RIGHT?

From the man's perspective, you have to act on your impulses to sin..other than that, a l'il "wishful thinking' maybe....and if looking at the woman is a sin.....then not only me but practically 98% of all men will burn in the proverbial hell.....

but if anyone is gonna sit around and run this scenario thru their head as if they sinned, then in my opinion they have their underwear on too tight to be able to think properly.....

anyway its just opinions, right? enuf ammo for you to analyze me right?

[que90nek]

lol
analyze u.....well, mack...thats not my aim in life....but i thought it would be a good discussion piece...to find out folks views on

judging, christian accountability, lusting, leading someone into temptation, expectations of baby christians as opposed to older christians, etc etc...

[HulaSista]

this is titled question #1....

where is number two?

[que90nek]

why don't u do number two....

number two can be done by anybody!

[lightandlovely1]

I don't think any of them has sinned. I think the person who took it upon themselves to be jugemental is the one who'd best be worrying about sin.

Now the woman should have put a coat or something on but her attire shouldn't be the focus point. The man needed to have his thoughts on the service instead of the woman sitting in front of him but I don't think he was sinning either.

I always try to be very careful of judging others'.

[Brightness]

I would say the one who came closest to sinning is the man because he actually took things a step further (at least from the example) by envisioning himself bending the woman over the pew and doing her. . .that is clearly lust, not just a natural human thought or admiration of beauty, in my opinion, this man's thought seeks to have him FORNICATE with this woman. . .now, if he had said we'llmeet, date, get engaged & married and THEN I'll bend her over the pew. . .that would have been better.

[MsMeelah]

I would say her sister. Her sister should have told her that she could see her thongs. But all she was worried about was getting to church on time.. that was selfish

[que90nek]

Originally posted by MsMeelah+
I would say her sister. Her sister should have told her that she could see her thongs. But all she was worried about was getting to church on time.. that was selfish

thanks, meelah....

is leading a man into temptation ...of God?

[MsMeelah]

Originally posted by que90nek+


thanks, meelah....

is leading a man into temptation ...of God?

Not if she didn't do it on purpose. If put the red thongs under a beige for the sole purpose of getting attention then I would say yes.
A woman can wear a potato sack but if she has T&A, a man is going to look....

[14KBlaqWmn]

I believe that all 3 have sinned because Lady X knew better but did nothing to correct it. I mean, she could have put on different underwear that wasn't as revealing. The sister is wrong because she knew better and insisted that they go on to church instead of taking a few more minutes to help her sister pick out something better or ask her to change her undergarments. Man Y is wrong because he was lusting after Lady X.

[MsMeelah]

Even if the woman showed up at the church with nothing but nipple claps and a thong with the intent of getting attention. She is still not responsible for the mans lustful thoughts or actions she is only accountable for her own.. seems to me that some people in the body of christ are so quick to blame the woman "making a man lust"

[14KBlaqWmn]

No she's not responsible for his thoughts, but she is responsible for herself. Wearing something like that does get attention....whether it's lustful or just plain out folks looking and talking about her. If you know something is gonna cause more negative attention towards you, why would you put yourself in that kinda spot. You learn in kindergarten that some colors are darker than others, so common sense should tell her that you don't wear something red under something light.

[que90nek]

remember the thought that she had....as she looked in the mirror?

was that God tryin to tell her that maybe the dress was a bit much....????

but if i recall....she hadnt prepared anything else....is that an excuse?

meelah...u can't be responsible for all the lustful thoughts around you, but u must dress responsibly...at least at church....right?

[MsMeelah]

[i]
meelah...u can't be responsible for all the lustful thoughts around you, but u must dress responsibly...at least at church....right? [/B]

Exactly. But also remember that two people can different definitions on what is appropiate for church. For example, it would be common sense for me not to wear a red thong under a beige dress Anywhere, let alone church. But some people simply don't know better It does not give others the right to judge someone because of it, especially in the church.

[14KBlaqWmn]

But in this example she did know better, but chose not to do something about it. Even if she did not know better, her sister enlightened her about it. Now if she still chooses not take heed, then that's her problem.

[que90nek]

well actually...the sister said nothing! she was wrong.

meelah...i agree....u have to use common sense...your own common sense...but when she questioned herself about the dress....the only reason she didnt change was because she didnt have something else prepared....

i say it would have been better for her to stay home and pray and have her own church than to cause that man to sin.....

those thoughts that she had when she looked in the mirror were there for a reason.......her ignoring those thoughts due to laziness....was a sin....

as christians we have a responsibility to counsel each other...ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE, but we can have opinions....and be helpful and love one another. am i loving you if i don't warn you of impending danger?

[14KBlaqWmn]

You're right que. I misinterpreted the thought the sister had in her head as her saying it out loud. But my answer still stands that all 3 have sinned.

I think that a lot of times when we have second thoughts or second guesses on things we don't always look at it as God warning us or giving us signs. We just see it as us thinking for ourselves.

As for loving one another, I believe that if you truly love your fellow man that you will try to help them to stay on the straight and narrow according to God's laws.