Independent Women

[FAMU]

I'm talking about women who have good jobs, have their own homes (not apartments, HOMES) & R actively investing in the stock market.

These women R single, some have kids, some don't, but they R really down 2 earth.

These women say they haven't found a man, they aren't waiting on a man, & they R gonna do it themselves. They WANT a man, but they say Y should they wait 4 him when they can do 4 self, & ow long R they supposed 2 wait?

I aint mad @ them, but @ the same time, it makes me wonder...

I've come across women like this in their mid 20's & 30's, across the country.

Has any1 else noticed this, or is it just me?

I'm not saying these women R right or wrong, but if more & more women R thinking like this, maybe this should B addressed?

Any ladies here R like the 1's I described?

Will this or how will it affect male/female relationships if this trend continues?

[14KBlaqWmn]

I received an e-mail about this very subject last week....take a look at it, this could be part of the problem.
**********************************
>Like most hip young urbanites, I need three things: food, shelter
>
> >and a damn good pedicure. So, as I made my weekly sojourn to the
>
> >Flagship Randall's grocery store, I stopped by the magazine aisle
>
> >to stock up on my monthly reading staples: Essence, Black
>
> >Enterprise and Cosmopolitan. As usual, I did my illegal reading of
>
> >Jet magazine, which means, I read the whole thing from cover to
>
> >cover without paying for it.
>
> >
>
> >As I drooled over the latest issue of Essence, with oh-so-fine
>
> >Boris, I'm-hot-but-my-grill-is-jacked Shemar and I-think-I'm-cute
>
> >Tyrese on the cover, I noticed the tagline at the top of the
>
> >magazine: 'Forget Mr. Right! Create Your Own Wealth'. Nothing
>
> >unusual, I thought, just the usual rhetoric about sista's who don't
>
> >need a man, which has become commonplace in Essence. However, as I
>
> >picked up my Cosmo in the white girls section, I noticed that most
>
> >of their articles had a common thread about how to get a man. They
>
> >all had taglines such as 'Find your Sexual Soul Mate', 'Date like A
>
> >Pro', 'Build That Relationship' and 'Find Him, Marry Him!' As I
>
> >looked back at my Essence with three physically, handsome men on
>
> >the cover that would make any sane sista' think about settling
>
> >down, I was curious to know why Essence would go left, instead of
>
> >right. Hmmmm. Why are sista's so geared towards accepting the fact
>
> >that we may always be single? Is this an unfortunate situation that
>
> >we have been accustomed to? The last ten years have left black
>
> >woman with "I can and will live life without a man", tattooed
>
> >across our foreheads. So, I ask myself this question: are the
>
> >gatekeepers of the media finally force-feeding us the "single til'
>
> >I die" mentality that we've been whooping and hollering about all
>
> >these years?
>
> >
>
> >Singledom is an accepted practice among most black urban
>
> >professionals. A recent and interesting conversation with a mixed
>
> >crowd of friends revealed some unpleasant truths. Some of us have
>
> >settled in our minds that we are probably going to be single for
>
> >the majority of our adult lives, whole most of us are knee-deep in
>
> >the dating game. Sista's are doing the multiple dating thing,
>
> >sometimes all in one day. It's not unusual for one of my sista
>
> >friends to hook up with one brotha' for coffee in the morning,
>
> >another for a quick bit of lunch and then yet another for dinner
>
> >and dancing later on that night. And, lest we forget, the brotha's
>
> >are matching sista's date for date. They are just trying to spend
>
> >as little money as possible in exchange for some company. This
>
> >serial dating is supposed to be the in-thing for modern young
>
> >urbanites. Marriage or even a steady, monogamous relationship is
>
> >just an afterthought.
>
> >
>
> >The media portrays today's black woman as confident, sassy,
>
> >independent and most importantly, in no need of a man to run our
>
> >show. Look at the movies geared towards us. Waiting to Exhale. How
>
> >Stella got her Groove Back. Two Can Play That Game. All movies that
>
> >scream, "this is how a 'real' black woman should be". The images of
>
> >these types of women, who relish the thought of either getting rid
>
> >of that damn negro or having a relationship that has absolutely
>
> >nothing to do with getting married are becoming too commonplace for
>
> >comfort.
>
> >
>
> >Even movies geared towards black couples and families are following
>
> >this trend. Take The Best Man, for example. Nia Long's character,
>
> >educated, smart and beautiful, is ridiculed for being too strong in
>
> >her career, too independent for any man and eventually she ends up
>
> >alone at the end of the movie. All this happens while some ditz
>
> >with no career rides into the sunset with a fine football player
>
> >and a couple of million dollars and another ditz with too many
>
> >careers get's a marriage proposal. Let's look at Soul Food. The
>
> >successful, beautiful lawyer played by Vanessa Williams ends up
>
> >lonely and divorced while her ex-husband goes off to find a
>
> >successful music career and the docile, submissive and crafty wife
>
> >played by Vivica Fox keeps the whole family together. Huh? Isn't
>
> >the strong black woman supposed to have it all? Where is her
>
> >somewhere over the rainbow? Where is her damn marriage proposal?
>
> >Where is her knight in shining black armor?
>
> >
>
> >Well, one strong black woman did get her marriage proposal. In The
>
> >Brothers, Shemar Moore's character almost made it to the alter,
>
> >despite the protests of his boys. However, after getting a serious
>
> >case of cold feet and selective amnesia when he forgot to tell his
>
> >bride-to-be the change in plans, we see a beautiful, successful
>
> >black woman turn into a hysterical, gun-toting, neck rotating
>
> >psycho bitch.
>
> >
>
> >Now, let's take a look at the movies geared towards white women.
>
> >The Wedding Planner. Sweet November. What Women Want. All movies
>
> >with strong, independent white women. All are movies that explore
>
> >relationships with white women. However, I noticed one startling
>
> >difference between these and movies for black women. All these
>
> >independent women, even the one that is dying in Sweet November,
>
> >end up getting them a man. No matter how the character was
>
> >portrayed, the end result was to show that life just isn't worth
>
> >living without the right guy. Interesting, isn't it? Even music
>
> >pushes us away from cohabitation with a man. Who was hired to
>
> >write, produce and perform the sassy title track for Charlie's
>
> >Angels last year? Dream? Enya? Celine Dion? No, they picked
>
> >Destiny's Child, whose audience, although white, includes a
>
> >majority if young, black impressionable females, to loudly proclaim
>
> >their independence from any man, for any thing they need.
>
> >
>
> >The gatekeepers of the media are not people that look like us. Face
>
> >the facts, the entire entertainment industry is run by old white
>
> >men. Look at Clive Davis, for God's sake. He is older then dirt and
>
> >still turns out black artists. At the end of the day, all these
>
> >record labels, artists, producers, writers, television executives
>
> >and publishing houses are owned by the same people and they all
>
> >look alike. So, if the gatekeepers of the media are allowing and
>
> >encouraging these types of images to filter into the black
>
> >community and we buy into it, are we subconsciously helping to
>
> >justify the lack of strong, loving black relationships?
>
> >
>
> >Dazzling young urbanites are at a crossroads in our personal lives.
>
> >We want to settle down, but we can't find someone who doesn't make
>
> >us physically nauseous after six months. We want to find a mate,
>
> >but we are so scared of losing our independence in the
>
> >relationship, that we wear our ass on our shoulders. We want to
>
> >find love, but we have so many strings and bylaws, rules and
>
> >regulations, on what our idea of a relationship should be that the
>
> >love becomes a distant afterthought. Black women and black men, we
>
> >have to ask the question: is this the society we have created for
>
> >ourselves or have we allowed society to create it for us?
>
> >
>
> >How did we get to the point where we began to embrace the media
>
> >images that sabotage our chances of finding a meaningful
>
> >relationship? And, in some way, have we helped the gatekeepers of
>
> >the media by buying into the drama? If the stereotypes are correct,
>
> >we might as well accept the fact that we may be single for the rest
>
> >of our natural lives. Those of us that do make an attempt at
>
> >finding love will only get burned in the process. Those of us who
>
> >don't are considered the lucky ones. Of course, there is the
>
> >argument that it's all just entertainment and that in real life,
>
> >black men really do want a black woman who is independent, educated
>
> >and sassy. However, in the world of black love, reality doesn't
>
> >fall too far from fiction and isn't it true that art often imitates
>
> >life?

[mystkev]

I have noticed this and I don't think there is anything wrong with being that way. Why should a woman hold off making a financial future for herself until she meets a man? To me that's stupid, what if that guy never comes along? We can build our personal wealth now and share it whenever we settle down.

My sister is an independent woman like you described and I am on my way (hopefully) to being that way, the only thing I don't have is my own home. I'm not ready for marriage, so should I be broke in the interim? I am not a chickenhead, gold digger, or any of those other things, so yeah I've got my own.

How is a woman supposed to think? That she should wait for her Prince Charming to come along and take away all her financial woes? If a man is intimidated by my money then he isn't the man for me anyway. I don't think it should matter.

[CD]

I don't know many independent woman. The few I know are either very over weight, got man issues, or gay...

[14KBlaqWmn]

Originally posted by CD+
I don't know many independent woman. The few I know are either very over weight, got man issues, or gay...
Huh??? WTF? Please explain what your definition is of an independent woman.

[davinci]

manslow heirarchy...social need has two places - love #3 and acceptannce #2, both beat out food an safety, #'s 4 & 5, accordingly.

whether man or woman, if you don't know love from another, you'll always feel unfulfilled. i've met many a 35+ women who had material wealth, but behind closed doors, cried because they have nobody. men, i know want a good companion. that's whhy women seem to have problems with men and their friends. our friends supply us with emotional supprot when yall start trippin'

[mystkev]

Originally posted by davinci+
manslow heirarchy...social need has two places - love #3 and acceptannce #2, both beat out food an safety, #'s 4 & 5, accordingly.

whether man or woman, if you don't know love from another, you'll always feel unfulfilled. i've met many a 35+ women who had material wealth, but behind closed doors, cried because they have nobody. men, i know want a good companion. that's whhy women seem to have problems with men and their friends. our friends supply us with emotional supprot when yall start trippin' I don't think this thread is about money over love. It's about women not waiting for a man to provide. As Famu said, they want a man, they just aren't waiting for one to provide for them financially.

[davinci]

Originally posted by mystkev+
I don't think this thread is about money over love. It's about women not waiting for a man to provide. As Famu said, they want a man, they just aren't waiting for one to provide for them financially. i agree. but too often women use the "I-word" that makes it a $$$ issue.

i thought you were making that an issu, "Why should a woman hold off making a financial future for herself until she meets a man?" but i must've miss understood

[davinci]

14k's article was great.

my problem is the idea of family is being knocked down in our community and as the author put it, it seems to be a conspiracy. and i agree.

[mystkev]

Originally posted by davinci+
i agree. but too often women use the "I-word" that makes it a $$$ issue.

i thought you were making that an issu, "Why should a woman hold off making a financial future for herself until she meets a man?" but i must've miss understood No I wasn't saying that money was more important than love, I was saying that a woman should be able to provide for herself and not be dependent on a man financially. What if this woman never finds a man to love? Having and loving a man does not equal someone to take care of you.

[davinci]

i agree. i wasn't saying that. i agree with you on this issue.

[mystkev]

Originally posted by davinci+
14k's article was great.

my problem is the idea of family is being knocked down in our community and as the author put it, it seems to be a conspiracy. and i agree. I've said this before, Stop letting THEM define US and we would be a lot happier. I hear what the author is saying, she makes a lot of sense. I've never been one to allow the media to dictate how I run my life, but hey, I ain't everybody.

[davinci]

mystkev, i agree, but until someone uncover the conspiracy, you ma not know you're being affected. i've actually had women tell me that i was gonna leave them for a white woman, becasue they saw it in waiting to exhale and they have never met a man that did what the KNEW was gonna happen

[14KBlaqWmn]

Still waiting on CD's definition, but here's mine. To me, an independent individual is someone who can hold their own in every arena without the assistance of someone else.

I think most people are partially independent. For example, someone may not need to depend on someone to provide finances for them, but they may need to depend on someone to provide for them emotionally or physically. I think when a person can fulfill all their needs on their own without anyone at all....like a hermit....then they are totally independent.

[mystkev]

Originally posted by davinci+
i've actually had women tell me that i was gonna leave them for a white woman, becasue they saw it in waiting to exhale and they have never met a man that did what the KNEW was gonna happen I try not to be critical of others, but that is the stupidest shit that I have ever heard. That is someone who does not have self-confidence. I think that people who take movies and tv shows as a way to live their lives has problems w/reality. For me it is just entertainment.

I don't really think it's a conspiracy, I think it's more of a stereotype, you know, that Black women don't need anybody or anything.

[que90nek]

lol@davinci...

dawg, i thought when u said MANSLOW theory...i thought u were tryin to be funny!


*side note:Manslow is really Maslow's Theory of Needs or Mazlow's...me forget*

[davinci]

we all need someone. that's the problem. we need love. gay or straight, child or adult. we need love. i actually know hermits that are very sad, but they hermit for political reasons. anyhoot. we all need love.

[CD]

Someone that is independent is strong in there spot. They don't need financial, emotional, or physical input from anyone in order to be happy or fulfilled as a person.

The person may want, but they don't need.

[14KBlaqWmn]

Originally posted by mystkev+
You know that Black women don't need anybody or anything.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Black women...hell people in general need others. There's always a time in everyone's life when you need the assistance of someone else. Sure history and even present day times have shown us that black women can endure a lot, but think about it a moment.....did they all really do it all on their own.......could the burdens have been a little easier if they had help?

[swtjamaica]

...we (women) have to be realistic...there are no prince charmings out there waiting to marry us, therefore we must know and learn how to provide for ourselves...we have seen countless times where women (mothers, grandmothers) have allowed the men to handle all of the business affairs, etc, and when they die or leave, the women are left penniless and with no clue as to the hows and whats of handling their finances or financial futures...we also have to face the fact that a lot of men are intimidated by a woman who has something to bring to the table, or by a woman who may make more money than he does...it's a fact...it happens with some men...what we have to do to develop strong black loving relationships is trust and take time to know who it is you are dealing with...if you wanna fuck, by all means do so, but we shouldn't equate good fuckin with love...but i digress...we (women) have to be able to provide or at least know how in case (God forbid) that special one doesn't pass their way...

[14KBlaqWmn]

Originally posted by davinci+
we all need someone. that's the problem. we need love. gay or straight, child or adult. we need love. i actually know hermits that are very sad, but they hermit for political reasons. anyhoot. we all need love.

Dang D, we actually agree for once. Go figure.

[mystkev]

Originally posted by 14KBlaqWmn+

I disagree wholeheartedly. Black women...hell people in general need others. There's always a time in everyone's life when you need the assistance of someone else. Sure history and even present day times have shown us that black women can endure a lot, but think about it a moment.....did they all really do it all on their own.......could the burdens have been a little easier if they had help? No, that's not my belief, that's the stereotype. I was commenting on the "conspiracy" theory. I must not be making myself clear. I do believe that we need love in our lives and money is really not that important. I am just saying that it is good to have our own.

[davinci]

Originally posted by swtjamaica+
[Bwe also have to face the fact that a lot of men are intimidated by a woman who has something to bring to the table, or by a woman who may make more money than he does...it's a fact...[/B]ok...here we go again. "a lot," "it's a fact"...ok. if you're fat, ugly or something else, intimidation from or of my success $$ is a great scapegoat for SOME (not a LOT of) women......

anyhoot...i feel you on the rest, but show me statistics and the accuser betnot be fat or ugly or whatever who were intimidating

[14KBlaqWmn]

I'm reading in a lot of the posts so far were money and love seem to be the only needs mentioned. Surely people need more than money or love.

[davinci]

Originally posted by 14KBlaqWmn+


Dang D, we actually agree for once. Go figure. i agrre with you 1 out of 2 times, actually. just no likey debatey, that's all.

[swtjamaica]

D...fat and ugly women can't get none(love)??? sup with that??? :D really though, there are nice looking, fit and trim women out there who "intimidate" the men that may be interested, but are afraid to get to know them due to their "status"...then they are labeled "bitches" etc, because they know what they want and how they want it...


Originally posted by davinci+
ok...here we go again. "a lot," "it's a fact"...ok. if you're fat, ugly or something else, intimidation from or of my success $$ is a great scapegoat for SOME (not a LOT of) women......

anyhoot...i feel you on the rest, but show me statistics and the accuser betnot be fat or ugly or whatever who were intimidating

[davinci]

one time for the big girl...

sounds like they intimidate themselves. introduce me...i ain't skeered

[14KBlaqWmn]

Originally posted by swtjamaica+
D...fat and ugly women can't get none(love)??? sup with that??? :D really though, there are nice looking, fit and trim women out there who "intimidate" the men that may be interested, but are afraid to get to know them due to their "status"...then they are labeled "bitches" etc, because they know what they want and how they want it...


I agree with ya to an extent. Some of those same women may know what they want and how they want it, but are they taking into consideration that when dealing with others, you do have to make some sacrifices and compromises. And I'm not talking about your standards or morals. For example, if a woman is used to going to fine restaurants all the time, she will not go to a cheaper restaurant, and she's going out with a man who is a janitor she will have to compromise some because ol' dude may not be making the loot like she is. Sure she can pay sometimes, but if he's a man that likes to be able to do things for his lady, he may feel outta his league when he can't give her some of those things from time to time. Those kinda things can mess with the male ego.

[mystkev]

Originally posted by mystkev+
I try not to be critical of others, but that is the stupidest shit that I have ever heard. I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the women. Just wanted to clear that up.

[swtjamaica]

I feel you on that...that is very true...


Originally posted by 14KBlaqWmn+


I agree with ya to an extent. Some of those same women may know what they want and how they want it, but are they taking into consideration that when dealing with others, you do have to make some sacrifices and compromises. And I'm not talking about your standards or morals. For example, if a woman is used to going to fine restaurants all the time, she will not go to a cheaper restaurant, and she's going out with a man who is a janitor she will have to compromise some because ol' dude may not be making the loot like she is. Sure she can pay sometimes, but if he's a man that likes to be able to do things for his lady, he may feel outta his league when he can't give her some of those things from time to time. Those kinda things can mess with the male ego.

[davinci]

d is thick skinned like polyurethane

[CD]

You really think thats it, Ha,Ha,Ha....

If a woman has her attitude right then she knows exactly how to handle herself around men so as not to make every man that she comes in contact with feel intimidated. If it happens every time to the point she dosen't seem to be able to get or stay involved then she has a problem....

[swtjamaica]

I'm not saying the woman is actually doing anything to intimidate...some men won't approach a woman who gives off the vibe that she is strong, or if she appears to be independent or wealthy...say it ain't so...


Originally posted by CD+
You really think thats it, Ha,Ha,Ha....

If a woman has her attitude right then she knows exactly how to handle herself around men so as not to make every man that she comes in contact with feel intimidated. If it happens every time to the point she dosen't seem to be able to get or stay involved then she has a problem....

[Vronni]

I agree with the others who said that we all need love. To me that's a basic need,maybe not as pressing as food or water,but basic nonetheless. Historically,I think that black women have been faced with issues that have forced us to be more independent than our white counterparts. But I think that the idea of the black woman being not just independent but alone, has shifted to the norm rather than the exception. The media loves to perpetuate the image of the black woman with the major attitude who rolls her neck, and clowns her trifling man. So now, even some of us, as black women, have grown to accept the stereotype that we should not concern ourselves with having a relationship(or at least not a quality relationship) . Now,there's nothing wrong with having a job,car,house,being able to pay your own bills-matter of fact,I think that these are important things for a woman -but I think that it's also important to have affection and companionship,as well. The difference is that white women are told that they can and should have it all-career,family,etc. but for black women-the same is not true- and I for one,have a problem with that....

[davinci]

amen, vronni, amen

[CD]

I think folks bought into the idea that they can have everything.... BULLSHYT!

That idea was put out there by white woman with the so- called womans lib movement.

Now you know why little Johnnny be taking guns and bombs to school looking to blow everybody away.

[14KBlaqWmn]

CD, now you know, you're gonna have to explain that response. What are you trying to imply?

[CD]

That the whole idea of doing it all is bullshyt for both men and women. I'll just say that it danm sure an't the optimum way of doing things.

[Vronni]

So,what should the choice be then,CD? Pick career or family ? not both?

[14KBlaqWmn]

Originally posted by CD+
I think folks bought into the idea that they can have everything.... BULLSHYT!

That idea was put out there by white woman with the so- called womans lib movement.

Now you know why little Johnnny be taking guns and bombs to school looking to blow everybody away.
No, dear, you still haven't explained it. I want to know what you are implying by mentioning white women and women's lib with little Johnny toting guns.

[Melotic]

Originally posted by swtjamaica+
...we (women) have to be realistic...there are no prince charmings out there waiting to marry us, therefore we must know and learn how to provide for ourselves...we have seen countless times where women (mothers, grandmothers) have allowed the men to handle all of the business affairs, etc, and when they die or leave, the women are left penniless and with no clue as to the hows and whats of handling their finances or financial futures...we also have to face the fact that a lot of men are intimidated by a woman who has something to bring to the table, or by a woman who may make more money than he does...it's a fact...it happens with some men...what we have to do to develop strong black loving relationships is trust and take time to know who it is you are dealing with...if you wanna fuck, by all means do so, but we shouldn't equate good fuckin with love...but i digress...we (women) have to be able to provide or at least know how in case (God forbid) that special one doesn't pass their way...

I know a lot of successful professional Black women, that are single... Most of them have told me, they have do this for themselves, cause of limited available good Black men... Most of them good even care if the man is professional/their level of education, they say a good blue color brother they would date/marry: mailman, firefighter, etc... The problem, I feel is these type of brothers don't know this...

[14KBlaqWmn]

Originally posted by Melotic+


I know a lot of successful professional Black women, that are single... Most of them have told me, they have do this for themselves, cause of limited available good Black men... Most of them good even care if the man is professional/their level of education, they say a good blue color brother they would date/marry: mailman, firefighter, etc... The problem, I feel is these type of brothers don't know this...
I wouldn't say that they don't know, they just assume that because they've run into a few that didn't accept them that alllwoman like that would not want to be with them. Black prof. women have been stereotyped in a huge way and because of that a lot miss out.

[CD]

Originally posted by Vronni+
So,what should the choice be then,CD? Pick career or family ? not both?

both are careers?

[CD]

Originally posted by 14KBlaqWmn+

No, dear, you still haven't explained it. I want to know what you are implying by mentioning white women and women's lib with little Johnny toting guns.

I wasn't trying to explain it to your satifaction, dear. Somethings I will not connect the dots on.

[14KBlaqWmn]

CD, you're not doing very well with explaining your comments. What gives?

[CD]

Originally posted by 14KBlaqWmn+
CD, you're not doing very well with explaining your comments. What gives?

If I am not clear to you, then its just that I am not clear to you. Sometime I'll put forth the effort and sometimes I won't...

[djackso]

Why are we putting success with having a big car, big house, & big money? A woman who has a good career, loving husband, & respectful children is successful in my book. Can't you be independent & still part of a team? I'm going to take you back to the PE days & say that a sophiticated bitch wouldn't be happy with anything she has in life.

[HulaSista]

Famu posted in the beginning: independance equals having a house, good career, etc...

At what point are men and women issued the independence "license"? i think i have a good career, but i don't have a house. So, i am not independent? i think i take care of my child very well, but i don't have a car. So, i am not independent? And just because I have not found the love of my life means i am miserable? What the fuck and who the fuck?

I got lost in all ya'lls post. I agreed here and disagreed there and just got lost after one or two yays and nays

i am still trying to figure out what cd meant by The few (independent women) I know are either very over weight, got man issues, or gay...

what is it about that over weight comment i just don't like?

[Vronni]

djackso, I'm not sure what you meant by the PE quote. Because a woman is sophisticated ,which to me means classy,then she can't be happy? :confused: :confused: and being sophisticated=being a b*tch? :confused: :confused: That sounds quite ignorant. I'm suprised that PE had a lyric like that.....

[HulaSista]

May i add...

being independant and single is a priviledge in our society. there are women around the world that have no clue about such things, so, i thank God for the choice.

At the same time, and in slight reference to the articlue 14k posted, i think each woman and man has to find for themselves what being single/independance means. Are you single out of pain? Because its a concious decision? Because you feel its a gift from God (because, it is)? Or because deep down you are in hope that if you have all these things, a man will come along?

I think that having wealth does not make a man or woman come into your life any faster. I think it prepares you to have your house in order just in case so that YOU will be bringing all the right cards to the table.

I think it is perfectly OKAY for a woman to be single well into their aging. Now, women are making the decision to not include kids into the equation which is expected of us. I am always asked how many kidSSSSSSSSSS i have; when i say one, guys are extremely surprised. Just as i am surprise to meet a man with one or no children.

At any rate, the issues of being single is no more scarier or more important than the issues of folks marrying. I think that no matter what, folks will continue to get married inspite of themselves. Everyone has their turn in finding mr/mrs. right, if it was meant for them.

[djackso]

Originally posted by Vronni+
djackso, I'm not sure what you meant by the PE quote. Because a woman is sophisticated ,which to me means classy,then she can't be happy? :confused: :confused: and being sophisticated=being a b*tch? :confused: :confused: That sounds quite ignorant. I'm suprised that PE had a lyric like that.....

It means a so called classy woman who judges people & looks down on people because she has a big house, german car, 6 figure job. Happiness can't be measured materially. What's ignorant about that?

[Tastey]

I tried to read everything but I was scanning...so if this has been said I apologize...although I doubt it...lol :p

To me an independant woman is one who makes it on her own without the help of family, friends, or a husband. She pays her own bills, takes care of her child(ren) etc.

In my mind I am an independant woman and yes CD I am overweight...but that's your hang up...not mine. :rolleyes:

I think our society has changed. Women are geared towards having successful "careers" outside the home. Women are no longer taught how to be wives or mothers. And that in my humble opinion is why Johnny is toting guns to school.

In order to have it all you must know how to do it all. When I was in high school we took courses in cooking, cleaning, ironing, and child care. Taking care of a home and family whether with a husband or not is a CAREER all by itself. But alot of women are going to college for 4-6 years to learn how to do ONE career, and spending little or no time learning to do the other...then say...I can have it all. :rolleyes:

SwtJ, I have to disagree that there are plenty of Prince Charming out there waiting for us...but we stopped waiting for them a long time ago. We stopped believing they were there and decided to go it alone. That's exactly what the article 14k posted is saying. We as black women have been taught NOT to look for a good man because he doesn't exist. WTF kind of logic is that? I know plenty of strong wonderful black men who would make any woman a great husband...problem is I'm related to 90% of them. lol

[HulaSista]

Originally posted by Tastey+
I think our society has changed. Women are geared towards having successful "careers" outside the home. Women are no longer taught how to be wives or mothers. And that in my humble opinion is why Johnny is toting guns to school.

In order to have it all you must know how to do it all. When I was in high school we took courses in cooking, cleaning, ironing, and child care. Taking care of a home and family whether with a husband or not is a CAREER all by itself. But alot of women are going to college for 4-6 years to learn how to do ONE career, and spending little or no time learning to do the other...then say...I can have it all.


i totally agree... not to many of us this domesticated...(sp?)

[Vronni]

djackso,the lyric that you posted didn't say that she judges people and looks down on them -it just said sophisticated.

a sophiticated bitch wouldn't be happy with anything she has in life.

I thought that was the whole lyric-so I was asking for clarification because I wasn't understanding why she was a b*tch?just because she is sophisticated? if so,then that is ignorant to me. When you just explained that this "sophisticated" woman is also looking down on people, then it makes more sense why some people might call her a b*tch,although I think that that word b*tch, is used way too much, in this society (but that's a whole nother thread). Thanks for the clarification. I'm just not sure why it's wrong for this hypothetical independent ,sophisticated woman to judge others (based on their income), but it's ok to judge her ?

[Vronni]

CD,I'm not saying both are careers -i was referring to having both things. My question is (in your opinion) :You can't have a career as well as focus on family ?

[14KBlaqWmn]

Originally posted by CD+


If I am not clear to you, then its just that I am not clear to you. Sometime I'll put forth the effort and sometimes I won't...
Obviously you're not putting forth effort today.

[CD]

Originally posted by Vronni+
CD,I'm not saying both are careers -i was referring to having both things. My question is (in your opinion) :You can't have a career as well as focus on family ?


Focus to me means putting all your attention on one thing. There are going to be times when you'll have to make a choice, career or family. So no! I don't think the average person man or woman can do both to the same degree, one is going to suffer. The affect of that lack of attention is not going to be readily apparent. That comes out over time: marriage goes out the window, Job is boring, kids may not be performing well in school.

[dulce]

I know that you can have both - but it's about balance. of course, family should always come first cuz that's your foundation. success if relative - it isn't always about the $$$ but about satisfaction and security. If my family is healthy and happy and we have our needs met because I'm doing work that I enjoy, that's success.

as far as famu's initial questions, I think 14K hit it with her post at the beginning of the thread.

but ya'll on that overweight tip kill me...extra pounds = not independent? WTF? So I guess Star Jones is just a freakin failure waiting for someone to take care of her? yeah, right...

[davinci]

the overweight thing is just an example of a reason that a woman ignores, and expects everyone else to ignore because she has a successful (= $$, house, benz, etc.) life. these woman with shortcomings (or attributes that a man doesn't like) use the intimidation excuse instead of realizing that there is a physical or other reason that their relationships didn't vibe. so substitute stank breath, cockedeyed, or whatever for overweight. d is an equal opportunity boner.

[dulce]

D, understand your point but I'm asking how being overweight affects a women's independence...not asking about the intimidation factor...personally, I don't buy the intimidation thing...if someone doesn't want to be with you then, it's usually as simple as that...

[davinci]

i don't think it does, either. i was just trying to explain why it came up.

[CD]

Originally posted by davinci+
the overweight thing is just an example of a reason that a woman ignores, and expects everyone else to ignore because she has a successful (= $$, house, benz, etc.) life. these woman with shortcomings (or attributes that a man doesn't like) use the intimidation excuse instead of realizing that there is a physical or other reason that their relationships didn't vibe. so substitute stank breath, cockedeyed, or whatever for overweight. d is an equal opportunity boner.


Well said !

[RaiOfSunshine]

In my view, I think Black women who are independent just want to have their own security. They don't want to have to depend on any man to support them. Speaking for myself, marriage and family are at the bottom of my list of goals, below finishing school, paying off my bills, getting my career going, getting my car and nice place to live, and saving for retirement.

People in general, if they're lucky, will find their soulmate when the time is right, when everything falls into place. Women who think that men are dogs and are not worthy for their companionship just have issues on their own. Men who find independent women intimidating also have issues.

Your "Prince" or "Princess" will arrive when you find yourself, and love yourself.

[dulce]

:confused: =>dulce just sitting here wondering why the fellas can't just answer my question...

[swtjamaica]

when i spoke about Prince Charming, i meant that there is not gonna be a man to come, sweep us off of our feet, and carry us off, to "take care of us" forever and ever amen....i KNOW there are good men out there...i know a few, but they are already married...:(....


Originally posted by Tastey+


SwtJ, I have to disagree that there are plenty of Prince Charming out there waiting for us...but we stopped waiting for them a long time ago. We stopped believing they were there and decided to go it alone. That's exactly what the article 14k posted is saying. We as black women have been taught NOT to look for a good man because he doesn't exist. WTF kind of logic is that? I know plenty of strong wonderful black men who would make any woman a great husband...problem is I'm related to 90% of them. lol

[misha]

I have noticed this trend too. I mean, by all means, a woman shouldnot put her life on hold, but gosh, that shouldn't translate to "I don't need a man" either!

And as far as the weight thing goes, sure, I am sure that is a factor for some women. But, all men dont always prefer thin women. There are plenty of overweight women with good men. Sure, it does narrow down the choices, but being a man that is five foot six narrows it down for him too!

In my opinion, we as black people have bought into the hype. The man shortage thing, the white women are depleting our men thing, the black men are dogs thing....it has made us as women give up on men and made us angrily go after getting things and forcing ourselves to be happy with that. It has gotten to the point that to admit to needing a man in our lives has become a weakness! What the hell?

It keeps us divided, and apart.

[sistuhchey]

Everyone's standards and criteria is different....Just be yourself and call it a day!!!...if you feel your all that and a bag of chips so be it....if you feel others aren't up to your standards...oh well...each is own!!!......

So for all you independent men & women on the HUSH!!! I say you go BOY!!! you go GIRL!!!....keep on keeping on!!!..keep that bank roll tight, and heaven forbid if you should become unemployed and have to depend on unemployment.....Then how would you rate your independence???..hhhhhhhmmmmmmm.....

Nigga's kill me with this I'm better than you shit!!! .......I got a job you got a job???...But you call your's a career..lol, lol, lol...

[HulaSista]

Originally posted by sistuhchey+
heaven forbid if you should become unemployed and have to depend on unemployment.....Then how would you rate your independence???..hhhhhhhmmmmmmm.....

ouch....

[lightandlovely1]

I find the whole thing about independent women to be very confusing. I never thought of myself as independent but when I do give it serious consideration, I am and I wouldn't want to be any other way. But many times men confuse independence with something else. I had one brother tell me that he needed to be needed and that I don't need anyone and that was his problem with me. Now that makes no sense to me at all. I can take care of myself and you too if needs be - and I would think that's a good thing to know: I'm willing to let my man lead but if he needs me to, I can walk beside him or lead him when he's tired, otherwise, I've always got his back.

Now I would like to get married again but I'm not going to sit around and wait for a man before I provide for my family. I'm buying a house next year (might be my Christmas gift to myself this year) and I just bought a car. I do for my kids and still put money in the bank. Plus I'm about to go to start school. Now I would like a man that can take care of me but I will be ok if he never shows up. I don't need a man to equal or surpass me in anything because I've got, or will get the material things that I want and if that makes me too independent, well too bad.

[HulaSista]

You know what light....

...the coolest advice i was givin, was given to me buy a gay man: Don't wait for a man to buy you a diamond ring: BUY YOUR OWN DAMN DIAMOND RING... Since when were men ONLY allowed to go into the jewelry store?

And he went out and bought his single sister her own diamond.

I asked him: why you gots to be gay? you shure you don't wanna swing my way? ;)