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seductive_tee
09-15-2004, 10:31 AM
FYI...... I thought this would be interesting to forward.



As of 28 Octoberyouwill no longer be ableto float a check





A new law goes into effect on 28 Oct andall checks will be cleared electronically within minutes...even at night, even on weekends. If payday is Monday and you write a check at the store on Saturday assuming it won't clear before your paycheck is in you will be wrong-that check will bounce. And you will be charged overdraft fees.
Be aware of what you are doing and the affect it could have on your credit rating or career. Make sure funds are available before you write a check.

<http://www.consumersunion.org/finance/ckclear1002.htm[<http://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/truncation/default.htm>


"Check 21" starting in late October

You've probably bought something in a store with a check even though you don't have the money in your account at the time. You figure you have a few days for the check to clear, and by then the money will be there. It's called the "float." Well, the float is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Because of a new law going into effect in October, money will be drafted from your account immediately when you write a check. It's called "Check 21," and it allows retailers to scan your check through a machine that deducts the cash within minutes. It's essentially the end of the paper check system, as well, because the check will eventually be destroyed. There will be an image of the check online and that will serve as proof if you need it. But everything is becoming electronic, and a bank will know if a check is good right away. So, be prepared to move to an electronic bill pay system. It's the smart way to go. What about checks that you deposit? Well, the float is no longer available to you, the customer. But the bank still will hold a deposit for a few days to make sure it clears. It's not fair, but it's the way it's happening.

What are the main effects of "Check 21" on consumers?

·You won't be able to get your original paper checks back, because your bank will no longer have them.
·Checks you write will clear sooner, increasing the risk that a check will bounce if funds are not in the account when you write the check. Don't write a check unless the funds are already in the account to cover it.

·" You may not get access to the funds from checks you deposit any sooner, because the new law does not shorten check hold times. After 30 months, there must be a study on whether banks are making funds available to consumers earlier than the allowable hold periods.

·Banks will save money on processing checks, but banks are not required to share these savings with consumers.
·Different kinds of copies of a check will have different rights attached. Check 21 creates a new kind of paper copy of an electronic image of a check. This special kind of copy is called a "substitute check." Only a substitute check can be the legal equivalent of the original check, and only a substitute check triggers your right to recredit of disputed funds. A regular copy of a check does not carry these same protections. If you ask for a copy of a check, your bank may send you an ordinary copy instead of this special kind of copy which triggers legal rights and protections unless you ask for a substitute check.

·"A bank other than your bank will have your original check, and will decide whether to destroy it. Neither Check 21 nor other law requires a bank to keep your original check for any period of time. Before Check 21, your own bank decided how long to keep your original checks, if you didn't get them returned with your statement. Under Check 21, the bank of the person you wrote the check to may decide when to destroy your check.

·Consumers will get new rights for some electronically processed checks, but not for others. When a so-called "substitute check" is provided to a consumer, Check 21 gives the consumer a right to have funds of up to $2,500 recredited to the consumer's account in 10 business days if the check is paid twice, paid for the wrong amount, or otherwise paid in error. The statute is ambiguous about whether this new right applies when a paper substitute check is used in the processing of the check but is not returned to the consumer. The regulations restrict the right of recredit only to checks where the consumer was provided with a substitute check. If a check is processed electronically by all the banks it is routed through without the use of a substitute check and the consumer is not provided with a substitute check, then the check remains under state check law. In that case, the consumer does not receive a 10 day right of recredit even if the electronic image of the check is paid twice, paid for the wrong amount, or if both the electronic image and the paper check are paid.

·Consumers who want to maximize their consumer rights should ask for return of "substitute checks" with their checking account statements. Watch out for fees associated with a substitute check-returning account. Look for another bank if your bank charges a high fee to get copies of all your checks as substitute checks.

·Only the special "substitute check" can be legally equivalent to the original check to prove payment. The copies that a bank sends to consumers under a so-called "voluntary truncation" agreement, where the consumer agrees not to get the checks back, do not prove that a payment has been made, and do not trigger your Check 21 recredit right.

When do these changes go into effect?

Check 21 becomes effective October 28, 2004.
<http://www.consumersunion.org/finance/ckclear1002.htm>
<http://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/truncation/default.htm>

zuriyahe
09-16-2004, 04:14 PM
damit! I'm in trouble....

Tastey
09-16-2004, 05:48 PM
I find it amusing how urban internet legends can take the truth and stretch it so far.

Checks will not clear in minutes. That is untrue. If you click on the link and read it what it actually says is the "float" time is less.

I received notice from my bank which stated the same thing.

However if you've ever written paid over the phone by check, or online by check it's the same principle. The banks are deducting the money electronically rather than sending a paper check by train, plane or whatever to the bank. This is why the float time is lessened.

Most stores now have check verification now which verifies if the funds are in your bank and if they are not they will decline your check. Walmart has had it for years and if generally when I write a check there it clears the next day.

There are very few stores that you can float a check in now anyway at least not in this area.

gammite
09-16-2004, 08:11 PM
i don't think that this is a myth at all. at my place of employment we have what we call e-checks.

if someone writes a check we will automatically run the check as though it were a credit card through our system. once the funds are verified they are taken from the account immediately. we then void the check and give it back to the customer. then we have them sign the bottom of our copy of the reciept as though they were signing a credit card reciept.

i will repeat. the funds are immediately extracted from the account as though it were a credit card. we have had this system since may so when i saw this it did not surprise me.

i bought a suit the other day with a check and they did an e-check as well.

scoops
09-17-2004, 03:57 AM
Its already started in some areas.
I just got my bank statement and none of my
paid checks where in it, just a small photo copy
and information as to why.

I dont like it.

Tastey
09-17-2004, 07:32 AM
i don't think that this is a myth at all. at my place of employment we have what we call e-checks.

if someone writes a check we will automatically run the check as though it were a credit card through our system. once the funds are verified they are taken from the account immediately. we then void the check and give it back to the customer. then we have them sign the bottom of our copy of the reciept as though they were signing a credit card reciept.

i will repeat. the funds are immediately extracted from the account as though it were a credit card. we have had this system since may so when i saw this it did not surprise me.

i bought a suit the other day with a check and they did an e-check as well.

Most stores now have check verification now which verifies if the funds are in your bank and if they are not they will decline your check. Walmart has had it for years and if generally when I write a check there it clears the next day.

That's what I'm speaking about here Gammite. The company that I work for makes and services those machines.

However the money is not being deducted immediately anymore than with a debit card. You can make a debit card purchase and it take days to be deducted from your account. That's a common misconception.

Call your financial instituation and ask them or better yet read the link from the article.

seductive_tee
09-17-2004, 08:30 AM
I say call your bank or credit union....as i did.

Most credit unions are following this mine is.

Joi :)
09-17-2004, 09:10 AM
found that out the hard way last year at walmart so now if i aint got it it can't be spent, which for us people, is good. Eliminates bad habits.

mystkev
09-17-2004, 09:28 AM
I've never "kited" or "floated" a check before, but I also was never in danger of not having food to eat. I guess there really wouldn't be much point in writing checks in lieu of debit cards, b/c it all comes out right away now. I think they should let people have their two days for checks to clear. Oh well. Some people done fucked it up for everybody, b/c the ability to verify funds has been around for a while.

gammite
09-17-2004, 04:17 PM
perhaps, there are different systems out there or we are saying the same thing and misunderstanding each ohter. the e-check system that we use holds the funds immediately after we run the check like a credit card. so if someone has 500 dollars in their account and they write a check for 150 then the bank will place a hold on the 150 for us and only 350 is left available to the customer. that happens instantaneously. so if later that day they tried to write a 500 dollar check on another e-check system it would bounce.

it is kind of like when you go to a hotel and give them your credit card. the hotel runs your card to hold funds until you check out and pay. so if you had a 2000 limit and the hotel ran a 500 dollar hold on your card it comes off immediately. so you only have 1500 left on the card. if you went somewhere else after that and tried to charge 1800 it would decline. that is how our system works.

Tastey
09-17-2004, 05:33 PM
perhaps, there are different systems out there or we are saying the same thing and misunderstanding each ohter. the e-check system that we use holds the funds immediately after we run the check like a credit card. so if someone has 500 dollars in their account and they write a check for 150 then the bank will place a hold on the 150 for us and only 350 is left available to the customer. that happens instantaneously. so if later that day they tried to write a 500 dollar check on another e-check system it would bounce.

it is kind of like when you go to a hotel and give them your credit card. the hotel runs your card to hold funds until you check out and pay. so if you had a 2000 limit and the hotel ran a 500 dollar hold on your card it comes off immediately. so you only have 1500 left on the card. if you went somewhere else after that and tried to charge 1800 it would decline. that is how our system works.

We are basically saying the same thing except that this is not automatic at every store whenever you use a debit card or credit card. Especially pay at the pump. Sometimes that takes a week to come out of your account.

Some places do not put an immediate hold on the money and with this new system it will be the same. Some places won't place an immediate hold on the money with your check.

But most people who float checks have a system. It's tuesday they are at Store A and they know that normally store A takes 5 days to deposit a check and they get paid on friday so they write the check.

With the new system Store A may only take 2 days or even 1 day to process that same check and it will bounce on Wednesday/Thursday which is why they are saying "float times are less" not that they will no longer exist.

In some places they already don't exist. Walmart is one. Where you work is another. Walmart uses the e-check and has for several years. However Kmart doesn't have e-check. (they might i really don't know cus I don't shop there just using an example) They still deposit their checks to a bank and people who write to Kmart can generally guess the float time.

This system is not putting e-check in every store, restaurant, and gas station. Those systems are very very expensive.

What it is doing is stopping banks from carting check from bank to bank by train plane or whatever. They are processed electronically. By cutting out the travel times, they are cutting out the float times.

So if Store A's manager deposits his checks after the store closes on Monday, then the bank is gonna process those monday night or tuesday. But the deposits still have to be made before the money comes out of the account UNLESS this store has e-check.

But as stated if they have e-check like your store does it's gonna be declined anyway so the float time is moot.

This is a change being made in the banking industry not in stores.

Andre98
09-18-2004, 11:05 AM
I thought everyone did the electronic confirmation and holding these days. And it would seem that the smaller joints that could not afford the systems are the very ones usually
at higher risk, so I'm amazed any still accept paper checks.

SeaDuceme2
09-20-2004, 09:37 PM
No big deal for me, I haven't wrote a check in 4 years

seductive_tee
09-24-2004, 06:12 AM
posted on www.sdfcu.org website

seductive_tee
04-01-2005, 06:29 AM
Those that write checks, did you notice a difference yet?

Brightness
04-01-2005, 06:45 AM
I am amazed that people even still write checks.

With all this technology I still manage to get behind a check payer in the express lane at the grocery store.

seductive_tee
04-01-2005, 06:50 AM
I write very few myself, mainly to my hair dresser, for my daughters school lunch, or if i'm paying for a trip......right now i'm trying to use up my old checks so i can use my new ones whenever.

Pamalicious
04-01-2005, 06:52 AM
Currently - I pay for daycare and job related stuff with a check oh and I void one out for my car insurance - and it takes the usual 3 days for that to clear (I do check by phone).

Brightness
04-01-2005, 07:01 AM
You can shred the old checks and begin using the new ones. The numerical sequence is really not that big of a deal unless it is for you. I've got two sets of checks that I'm waiting to use.

I'm finally at the end of my first set of 150 checks that I got when I started with the bank in '01.

I've only got one check left and I think I may frame that because it's still the old name before our last merger.

Tastey
04-01-2005, 07:06 AM
Those that write checks, did you notice a difference yet?

None at all.

As a matter of fact in my opinion I think it's gotten slower.